Carole Rothman was a 28-year-old director when she and a colleague decided to form a theater company. It was the 1970s, and leadership opportunities for women were scarce. Also, they had a theory that there were a lot of new-ish plays that, for any number of reasons, deserved another look: Many nonprofit theaters, in their admirable enthusiasm for new work, seemed to be overlooking promising dramas that hadn’t gotten their due.
The result was Second Stage Theater, which is now a leading nonprofit theater in New York. The company has its own house on Broadway (the Helen Hayes), a commitment to staging work by living American writers and a proud history of nurturing Tony- and Pulitzer-winning shows. (In June, its production of “Appropriate” won the Tony for best play revival, and it previously won Tony Awards for “Take Me Out” and “Dear Evan Hansen.”)
After leading the institution for 45 years, Rothman, the founding artistic director and the organization’s president, is leaving at the end of this month. Rothman’s departure is not an entirely amicable one; she is proud of the work the theater has done, but wasn’t quite ready to leave.
She will be succeeded by Evan Cabnet, the artistic director of LCT3, Lincoln Center Theater’s space for producing work by early-career artists.
She spent her final days in the job working on a documentary about the Tony Kiser Theater, Second Stage’s Rem Koolhaas-designed Off Broadway venue, which the organization, to Rothman’s dismay, is letting go at the end of this year, citing cost concerns. (The company will continue to produce work Off Broadway, starting in space rented at the nearby Signature Theater.)
In an interview, Rothman, 73, discussed the challenges she faced as a woman in the industry, her favorite memories (and her biggest disaster) and what her future in the theater may look like.
These are edited excerpts from the conversation.
How did Second Stage come about?
Well, I was a woman. I was a director. There weren’t many opportunities for women directors, and I thought I should hire myself. I thought I was good enough. So, along with Robyn Goodman, who was an actor, we decided to start a theater.
Tell me about the name: Second Stage.
It’s because we were doing plays a second time. We thought there was a real place for us to do plays that needed to be seen again. Although then of course we switched almost immediately to doing new plays. It morphed. But I still produce plays that have been done before — “Appropriate” being a big one. Plays that just need a wider audience.
What difference do you think it made that you were women?
We had a chip on our shoulder — a strong desire to prove that we could do it. We were going to do plays by women and people of color. We were going to hire women. But basically it was the optics of being women leaders, and being forceful, aggressive, ambitious — all those things women aren’t supposed to be.
Over time you transitioned from directing to producing.
My husband died when my kids were 2 and 7, and so I had to give up something in order to take care of the kids, and it was easier to give up directing, which often requires late nights, being out of town.
How did you hit on the idea that your focus would be living American writers?
I really like working with writers. And I’m interested in living people.
When you opened your own Broadway house, you declared, “No Brits. No Chekhov translations. No classics.”
Broadway was a new adventure. A lot of theaters would go shopping for plays in London or do a star-vehicle Shaw or Shakespeare. So I defined us.
Why did you want Second Stage to have a Broadway house?
I’m very bullish on Broadway. I think it has a really wide appeal. It has a great brand. It has some wonderful people. We had moved plays to Broadway — “Metamorphoses,” “Next to Normal,” “The Little Dog Laughed” — and what you would see when you would stand in the lobby was all these people coming in, and it was exciting. And also, I was hearing from a lot of our writers — they needed to make a living. You can’t make a living Off Broadway.
Was it a good move?
It was a great move. It enabled me to give opportunities to people I wanted to give opportunities to. And the box office from Broadway sustained the institution.
What are your most memorable productions? I’m also going to ask about disasters, but I thought I’d start with the positive.
Let’s start with the disaster.
OK.
The biggest disaster was “Tooth of Crime” [in 1996]. I co-produced it with Jim Houghton. Vincent D’Onofrio was in it, and he banned me from the theater. There was a knife fight out in the alley. At the first preview, we sat on the steps of the Lucille Lortel, and within 20 minutes the audiences just started to stream out. It was horrible. [D’Onofrio, through a spokeswoman, acknowledged that there was tension at the production, but said that he doesn’t recall any specific issues between himself and Rothman.]
And some favorite memories?
“Next to Normal.” It was just so out there. It was about somebody who was bipolar. How do you describe it? But I love risk. And the music is great. I thought the story needed to be told. It was groundbreaking, and we felt that emotional musicals were going to be successful. And it won a Pulitzer.
And in terms of plays, a perfect production was “Make Believe,” the Bess Wohl play. Everything worked, and that doesn’t happen very often. The director, designers, actors, playwright, audience just came together. And it just stunned audiences every night.
One other thing that was a big highlight: “Metamorphoses.” The play ends where they’re all in a pool with lighted candles, and they speak together, and then they blow out the candles. It happened right after 9/11, and people sobbed throughout it.
What do you want to say about the circumstances of your departure?
I was negotiated out. [Second Stage Theater declined to comment.]
And how are you feeling about that?
Let’s put it this way. Five minutes after I won the Tony for “Appropriate,” I got a text from my friend Michael R. Jackson who said that was a great mic drop.
You’re not happy that the board decided to let go of the Kiser.
To give up that space breaks my heart. So you want to become some place that just rents some random theater? Go ahead. I hope somebody else rents it. Or else they’ll tear it down.
Discussions abound about the long tenures of artistic directors in New York. You stayed 45 years. André Bishop has led Lincoln Center Theater for 32 years. Lynne Meadow has been at Manhattan Theater Club for over 50 years. Todd Haimes was at Roundabout for 40 years.
Do you think that we all did a good job? Do you think that we all brought success to the theater? Do you think our experience, our knowledge, our good taste is valuable?
Todd took a theater that was bankrupt and brought it back. The stability that André has given to Lincoln Center has been crucial. Lynne had three plays this year that were nominated for Tonys, and two of them were written by women. I took a theater that didn’t exist and made it successful.
Any advice to your successor?
No.
Is there anything I’ve forgotten to ask?
Can I just take a moment to talk about why it’s important to have women leaders?
Yes.
I think it’s not just the optics of having a woman in a leadership role, which is important, but the fact that it shows that a woman can be an aggressive, ambitious, forceful leader. It models behavior for other people. It’s been difficult over the years to deal with the sexism and sexual harassment in the industry. It’s something that I’m proud of, that I’ve been able to, for the most part, deal with that and hopefully be some kind of a role model to other women.
Can you give me an example of sexism that you’ve faced?
Yes. I’ve recently had a board member say that the biggest problem with Second Stage was that I wasn’t very nice. I don’t think anybody would say that to a man. Niceness is probably not one of the top qualities that I think I should try to attain. [Second Stage Theater declined to comment.]
What are the more important qualities?
Being aggressive. Being ambitious. Taking big risks. I’ve often been described as a dog with a bone.
And you’re proud of that?
I’m proud of that. I follow through. I’m a truth-teller. I want what’s best for everyone, and I’m incredibly supportive to all the artists that work with us. I’d like to have respect for that, and I think in general I have.
You look at people that have been around for a long time and think, “Oh, what are the successes that you’ve had?” But the other question is: “What are the obstacles you’ve overcome?” I had to sit on a producer’s lap. I had to do all kinds of things aside from just the casual sexist comments. Those are big obstacles. That’s what success is — overcoming those obstacles that are thrown in your way.
What do you imagine your relationship with theater will be after this month?
I promised my family and myself that I would take six months off. And during those six months my Sunday afternoons, Sunday nights, Monday nights and Thursday nights are very busy with my devotion to the N.F.L. I love football.
And I’m a Tony nominator, so I’m going to see every show with no skin in the game. No schadenfreude. I’m not going to read a single review. I’m going to just enjoy them, and that will answer the question of if and when I’m going to come back to producing. If I do come back to producing, it will be commercially, but I want to experience theater in a fresh, open way.
Read More: Was 45 Years Leading Second Stage Enough? Not for Carole Rothman.
